To give you some info, I've been following poker since before all this craze myself. I'm 23 and have been playing since I was in the 4th grade. I'm sure Moss lost more than jsut a few hands in his life, and to more people than just your dad, if they ever really played. Poker isn't a game where the best player wins ALL the time in fact no player no matter how good can ever win all the time. I'm sure you know this since you've been around the game so long. As far as the first WSOP though it diodn't have the numbers of today nor the format, I feel it showed who was the best player not because he beat out a field of 2000 plus players and got really lucky a lot of times, like MM but rather played solidly and well this I think shows who is the better player. Brunson, Lederer, Hellmuth, and Chan are all much better than any champion since 1990 until today but the main event wins won't show that. Bottom line I stick to what I said, Moss was better than Ungar.