Moreover, for those who havent realized why you just cant see to win with a big flopped set or pair or whatever you think should never be beat on the river, take into consideration the pace of online poker. The reason it seems like so many bad beats is because the speed of the game is 20X faster than real life games hence 20X more bad beats. Common sense.

::laugh::...i just read a post by navone above and laughed hysterically for 20 minutes. "whoever says the beats arent bad never played in a live game." funny cause i play live tourneys 2 to 3 times a week and the beats are bad. By the way, what casino do you play at. I'd like to know where i can go that a flopped set is always a sure thing. Was at the Borgata last week and flopped a set of queens and got beat on river by a straight. Later i flopped an Ace high straight and got beat on river by a flush. Maybe the poker room there is involved in screwing its players out of their money...

Was a regular player at UB for a little over a year in low limit games. Up slightly over 4k. Here is my review of UB graphics: 9 customer service: 7 cash out: 10 game selection: 9 software reliability: 6 Tournies: 9 Random card generation: 0 (laughable) Finally left the site about two months ago, after noticing a substantial change in their random card generation. It was the norm to see straight flushes and quads several times a night. The bad beats are legendary. Throws your game off because the percentages are markedly off for flushes, full houses etc. I was sad to go because I loved the site otherwise.

i write the programs for many of these sites, im telling you they are rigged. im being investigated right now so i feel its my duty to let you all know what your getting in to.

I've been playing on UB for over 2 years now and it is still my favorite. I've tried fulltilt, partypoker, and a few others but always end up back at UB. I play real money tables but low level (2/4) as well as many $20-$50 buy in tourneys. As I mentioned, I've been playing there consistently for over 2 years and have neevr seen any of the descrepencies listed above. to the comment about too many straight flushes, please tell me what tables you're at as I've hit a straight flush twice in 2 years at UB and rarely see them.

congrats programwriter. Tell me, which software did you write? And whos investigating you? Dont say the US cause 90% of online poker sites are based over seas and the US has no jurisdiction when investigating...show us some proof youre not one of the ppl above who have a vendetta against these sites...oh wait you cant cause you are...

by the way, im a computer programmer myself...what language did you use??explain some of the stuff you did with shuffling algorithms and the basic programming and maybe ill believe you

well here's my two cents worth.I have played on Ub since it opened and about 15 other poker sites. the worst cheater site is by far Absolute Poker. yes Ub has cheaters and I brought it to their attention.I must say,UB said no matter how hard they try they cannot keep the cheats out.its everywhere but they do their best. they are the only ones who gave me the truth all the other site I found cheaters on and reported denied that cheating can happen. Royal Vegas is another to watch.and I agree with captcrunch that Ub (ulitimate bet) has a screwed bonus bucks.I still have bucks pending. just another way to make you play real money. lets face it players these sites are in for it to make them money not you. and as long as there are sites we will play them some will be lucky and win most will lose and the big winners is there players so it.s your call.i'm out of here going to look for a hot game

Anyone who is stupid enough to invest any amount of real money on Ultimate Bet deserves to lose!! Rigged up tournaments, computer generated players and consistent "highly unlikely" hands coupled with idiot/extremely homophobic 17 year olds and otherwise nasty white trash!! Save your $$ and go to a real casino!!

OKAY LETS MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR. The reason for there being so many "BAD BEATS" in these poker rooms isnt because they are actual "BAD BEATS" they are "BAD BETS". The only reason people call them bad beats online is because they called the raise or all-in in the first place. These situations that arise where "bad beats" are involved online dont occur in real life poker as often for many reasons: such as - when you sit down to play poker on your cpu for an hour, its basically like playing REAL LIFE poker for 12 hrs!! Imagine the bad beats you would see in a 12 hour period of poker!! (or play online for an hour) OR the people playing online dont really know what a badbeat is. these are the main 2 misconceptions ive come across. Get a book, read it, and then play poker by the numbers,,,not just HANDS ----->>> BETTING

Is it only a bad beat when the pot is big or someone goes all-in??? Think about it. Would it have been a bad beat if you just bet minimum through to river and lost on river, or only if you were all-in and lost on river??? What if the other player went all-in preflop with a weaker hand, weaker hand after flop, weaker after fourth street, but beat your two pair A A K K 8 (A A in hole) with 3 of kind 8 8 8 K K( 8 8 in the hole)??? Is that a BAD BEAT??? What if it was all-in after the flop? BAD BEAT?? or BAD BET by the guy with pocket 8's but he won!? Or is it just good luck?? REMEMBER: If YOU are the one CALLING the ALL-IN, you can't be beaten by a "BAD BEAT", you could have FOLDED. A "BAD BEAT" can only happen to the person who bets first because until the cards get flipped, nobody has a better hand. Chew on that

I fail to see the logic of building cheats into the program. They are already making 5% rakes on every pot, times hundreds of hands per hour, times hundreds of tables. Just calculating that on an avg pot of $40 X 15 hands per hour X 200 tables and its a whopping $6000/hr! The amount of money they are making on the rakes is mind boggling! So they would risk this by trying to cheat the very people who are making their site a huge success? Don't think so... the risk vs reward ratio doesn't make enough sense to risk it.

If you don't play wild and reckless.... your bad bet chances go down severely... I once played at a real face to face table and played 2 hands in 2 hours. There were 6 hands that I would have won.... but 13 that I would have lost on "bad beats". The reason people think that there is cheating is the same reason someone screams cheating in John Madden football... they suck

I've basically played all the biggies. Party's the worst. UB is probably the best, i.e. the most likely for a good player to do well. That said, the software is definitely built to level the game--that is, to pay off weaker players at the expense of better ones. To answer your (1/20/05) post, innocent, you're missing the point. Of course the house is making money on the rake. But the house ALSO has to make money from deposits, which FEED the rake---people don't just push money back and forth all day long to pay off UB--there have to be winners and losers....I'm surprised more of the naysayers haven't commented on the cashout curse--maybe it's because none of you are winners. Well, I'm a winner, and I can tell you both times I've cashed out at UB I've gotten hammered by the software---not just dodging a firestorm of bad-beat bullets, but getting dealt garbage cards for hour after hour. Also, there is a discernible difference between the bad-beat factor on the 5/10 NL and 2/4 and lower NL games. Clearly either the 5/10 games have "favored" or house players who UB is paying off at the expense of wannabes, or there's some SERIOUS hacking going on. Far as I can tell, the only way to win consistently at ANY of these sites is to play low limit NL so that the advantage you can take of the weak players offsets the advantage the software will take of you once you start cashing out. I will not risk any serious money on UB or any of these sites. Back to you, innocent, remember...if all the best players were allowed to win consistently, the volume of the rake would drop dramatically because eventually all the fish would run out of money. Also, you think people won't play in Vegas because the house is against them? People love to gamble and they know the software's not perfect--AND THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT...they ante up and play because they're hooked. All of these sites admit the so called RNG is PSEUDO random at best...and they all have taken great pains to build routines into their algorithms that hand winning players bad beats to keep them feeding at the trough. Bottom line: you can't trust ANY of these sites, and shouldn't, because they CANNOT BE REGULATED so they have a license to steal with impunity. If you want to have some fun and take a chance at getting lucky with decent software, try UB...but play 2-4 or lower NL games, and DON'T cash out until you're ready to go on vacation for a while--because they'll ream you if you ante up again the next day.

finally i can see some ppl with intellect and sanity posting on here. To everyone else its like a conspiracy is going on. Stop blasting the sites, particularly this one. The point about the fact you see more hands online then in real life was made by me before. Its a good argument but these people dont get it. The ones who cry cheating are the ones who lost their money (probably due to compulsive gambling habits) and need some closure in their life as to why they failed at poker.

Only site I have stayed loyal to. I have made many withdrawals and there is no link between this and bad beats. I get the plus side of the bad beats as often as the negative side. Does seem to generate some unreal hands (most recently AA,KK,QQ in a 6man game - fortunately I had the AA and it held up) but playing this many hands should mean some "unreal" hands. I have won more many here than any other site. Only complaint or recommendation: They need Higher Limit Heads Up sites as it tough to keep a shorthanded game shorthanded.

Sherriff on 2-3-05 said it best. I have to agree with you. You take money out...and forget about winning. Also, flopped a full house, Aces over Jacks. I slow play it, and one guy bets, another raises,I then raise, and I'm called by both players. Turn card is an 8, I check, guy next to me bets, next player raises, I then check raise them, the one guy folds, the other guy raises me. I call. River is another 8. I bet, he raises, I raise....you guessed it I was beat with four 8's. Who stays in with that, on a 2 /4 table??? Something is not right. I enjoy the site out of all the others, just finding it harder and harder to make a profit.

Stay clear of UB. It is complete fake.Unrealistic bad beats. This people who say they have won there are fake too. Think about that. He won $ 600 in few days? No problem tell him to play there for a month and then to make comment. First of all % of AA winning is less then normal you loose you AA to any cards two out of three times on UB. I have been playing there for few months everyday so i know. Guy will call you with 7/9 and get it. How about loosing your three Q's to FOUR 2's? Is that for real? When i complained to UB about those deals they told me that cards are dealt for 1000 tables at the same time and it is possible to get results like that when you throw dice 1000 times you get it? Dude if you play decent poker and wait for AK suited dont play at UB. YOu get Ak suited and someone has AA you can be sure. Aint crying about bad beats but this is unreal and most of all i think they manipulate they shuffler. Why i am saying that? When you deposit like $ 100 next game you play you win no matter what. Try and see. NO CUSTOMMER SUPPORT at all.!!!

like tourneys there but agree also, something is up with the bad beats, every tourney i've been for the last 3 days has ended in the most horrendous beats that it is just hilarious. To end it today i'm playing in 3 sit n go's, down to 4 people in all three of them. Go all in with JJ get called by 1010 to lose when a 10 rivers. 15 seconds later 4 players left next sit n go, all in with 77, get called by 66 who rivers a 6, lol other sng 1 minute later AK suited hearts vs A clubs K spades, 4 clubs fall lmao. This isn't right. Tourney I got knocked out of right before those sng's flopped straight went all in got called by top pair who runner runnered full house. LMAO, WTF. This is in about 3 hours, I don't even remember all the crap that has happened in the last few days.

UB is as rigged as they get. There is always some one with the nuts and that should not happen often but it does this and now other sites. The whole internet poker is not right. This companies are rigging their sites because they can and not montiored much by their governments. If you decide to play internet poker you are an idiot you should stick to casinos where you know they play it fair.

I have lost with 4 aces to a royal flush in Atlantic City that the dealers were talking about for days...and it was only a 5-10 game (thank God for small favors), so bad beats do happen time and time again due to the fact that there are a lot of awful players out there on the internet who don't care what they call down w/ for a 2 main reasons...1 is that they are playing on credit and don't worry about paying the bills in the future and the most important reson is that they don't have to face the other players telling them how stupid they are in person and have to see them over and over...click, they are out of the room. I mean does anyone truly think there is a guy at the headquarters watching the table saying "I'm gonna get this guy by giving him a good hand and have this guy suck out on him because he hasn't won lately!"

Anyone who believes that UB is not a set up game is totally naive. This is the most fake game I have ever played in my life. I agree that bad beats DO happen in real games. Some really bad beats happen in real life, no doubt. But, no game I have ever played in has beats as bad and as often as on UB. (I said bad beats and not bad bets, I know the difference)I have played poker for all of my adult life and most of my childhood and sometimes play for 36 or more hours at a time in real life games. I am no stranger to seeing some really bad beats. Never have I seen the amount of them in as few hands as I see them on UB. Also, in my entire life I can remember seeing 2 Royal Flushes and only a handful of str8 flushes in live games yet in less than 1 year I have gotten 2 Royals and too many str8 flushes to count. As I am playing on UB tonight I saw 2 str8 flushes in less than 1 hour, one of them I had the other was the fella to my left. Unbelievable things happen on this site and I could not possibly credit it to the luck of the draw or any concievable randomness of cards. UB used to state that they give everyone a chance to win. You tell me how everyone gets a chance to win if the draws are completely random? The only way to ensure that everyone gets a chance to win is to feed the fish frequently. Play for fun but I don't recommend trying to earn money on this site. It just will not happen no matter how good a player you are.

again you ppl are the ones who are naive. you sad more bad beats more often. With any online site there will always be more bad beats more often than reallife because in one hour time you can play up to 10X as many hands as in real life. So if by chance theres 2 bad beats of out 10 hands then theres on average 20 bad beats out of 100 and so forth. You ppl again just need an excuse as to why you dont do well. Ive played there for months and have been making money and have no bad comments.

I dunno bout all this cheating stuff.. Sounds interesting. I left the game for good, ahead sixty dollars on my 100 buyin. (forty of that in bonus dollars). I played one tourney, and lost in two hands, in the first hour. played AK, three way, heavy preflop betting. I flopped a king, and someone else flopped a set of tens. Played AJ suited, three way action. Flop was jack high. And again the other guy flopped a set. Interstingly enough, i lost this tourney, along with the rest of my roll, within days of cashing out. While this is a statistically meaningless anecdote, I do enjoy stirring the controversy. The reason I would never buy in again is because the software sucks, and the games are too tight. Someone else has suggested that good software attracts good players. Why anyone would call this software "good" is beyond me.

I think this poker site is fun for free money, and their freeroll tournaments. On bad beats, I do often agree. I for one see it most after I fold cards that should be folded. You'll need the turn and the river to make your middle straight. You fold, i've seen it come up more times then not. I think the reason for this is to encourage play and eliminate players quickly in tournaments. I don't know what the exact algorithim would be for giving good cards, and bad cards. I just find it strange on how unrealistic the cards are most times.

I strongly suspect that all you complainers are just bitter losers. I am neither a winner nor a loser, currently breaking even, but I have played on UB for many many hours and I think the "bad beats" are just part of the game. As for the guy complaining that 2-flush flops flush "more than the 25% of times they should" - take a math course please - if you are playing and have another 2 of the suit, your odds of flushing are about 36%. If you are not playing the odds of the board playing are about 40%. I have played for 2 months now. For the first month I was a bad player and I lost money. Now I am a better player and have got back to even. I have had "bad beats" as both a bad and good player, but in my second month I have lost less on my losing hands and won more on my winning hands, plus stuck more to the starting hands - you complainers should try that instead of wingeing about bad beats. I have cashed out quickly and reliably from UBet 3 times. I love their mini-view, meaning I can play 3 tables at once and see the good luck on one cancel out the bad luck on another. I majored in math/probability and, though I can't be certain after 2 months, my suspicion is that you complainers are just bad players, and that UB rocks - It is certainly a nicer site than PartyPoker or PacificPoker.

In response to Ted’s post: I did a little math as you suggested. Actually I allowed the computer to do it for me, I just told it how. My theory is that the UB Card engine promotes good cards, but in no ones favor. I created a script to simulate 10 hands between 2 players, pursuing to the river. My best way to generate randomness was to create an array for all 52 cards; I then randomly placed the cards into the array. $array[2] == Jh, $array[3] == 3s, etc, and then running again the variables were completely different. I did it this way to generate even more randomness in the card selection, as maybe an array with static variables wouldn’t be as random. After the array was generated I then simply created the script to pick random cards to deal out. The results were completely different then what you might see on UB. 60% of the hands dealt were won with a pair, or a high card. I then proceeded to go to a limit table on Ultimatebet heads up and play out 10 hands. The Recorded results were far superior to what my engine generated. Only 20% of the hands were won with a pair, or high card. The majority 40% were one with 3 of a kind. Then to finish it off 1 straight, 2 flushes, and a full house. I didn’t feel like I need to spend more time playing hands, because what I found was enough information for me. I’m not suggesting that anyone takes my information as gold. However my theory still stands that UB promotes and gives better cards, to everyone. This still makes it an even playing field. I can’t stress enough that this is complete speculation. It could be a mere coincidence that my tests returned what I thought they would. If you enjoy and play UB as much as I do, you should just take this information and say ‘weird’, and continue playing.

Party Poker just ordinary sucks. They are using bots as shils at the lower limts. The bots are not so much trying to win as crank up the action. I have played over 7,000 hands at UB mostly low level and it's by far the best site. I am not winning a ton, but I am winning.

i had a problem with the multi tables made it in the money a lot but always ran into a bad beat hand like aa vs kk know it happens but this was every time and for big money tourneys do u know who won first and the 8000 prize take a guess

The thing about UB is it likes to put you on streaks. You will go on a complete tear and get every Flush and Straight draw. This will happen for a pretty good amount of time until they know they have you and then everything will change drastically. This is when you will go the worst losing streak of your life. You won't be able to win. AA will be cracked, two pair won't be good enough, no draws will work out. It is a roller coaster. It also likes to put four card flush draws on the board, A LOT. Another thing that bugs me is that they don't seem to like it when you withdraw money. It seems like that is when the losing streaks start. I'm probably paranoid but thought I would share. I do like their multi table tourneys, especially the TURBO ones.

i can't stand all the people who ignore the facts. I win tournies, win at $$ games. To say that that anyone who complains aobut a sites randomness or something like that is just a bitter loser is way too naive. Like I said I consistently place in MTT's and win at $$ tables but I do think that all of these peoples ideas and complaints all hold credence. There are definitely problems with these sites and here is a link to prove what has happened in the past already. You can't argue with facts like seeing 4 4 of a kinds and 2 straight flushes in 1 hour of a tourney, lmao, if you think that is normal poker when it CONSISTENTLY happens you are on crack. Here's a link of some people who cracked the algorithm codes and knew every card coming off the deck and you just think we're bitter losers..... [url]http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/11070_616221_2[/url]

by far the best. if you dont like it, you dont know what you're talking about. best.

I play for fun, i lose money, i win money, but i have to admit most of the gripes in this thread are fairly accurate. Every time i deposit i immediatly win, every time i withdraw i immediatly lose. I play alot more in real life than online, and i recognize that the online games are faster, but that doesn't change the % of how much you win or lose. I'm a programmer, and when in school one thing they taught us is that there is no such thing as a random number generator. They have to skew the results one way or the other, and it doesn't make any sense for them to skew them towards the people who keep winning. You can choose to believe it or not, but at least read the following articles, along with the pages they link to. [url]http://www.gambling.co.uk/news/gambling-news.html?story=895[/url]
[url]http://the-raw-prawn.blogspot.com/2004/10/will-bots-destroy-online-poker.html[/url]

Ultimate Rip Off These Sites Are Fixed Untill Regulated Its A Double Gamble Against Them And Player Unless Your 100 Percent Sure Legit Why Wager Your Money.remember Where Theres Money Theres Greed There Future Is Uncertain So Make As Much As U Can.if You Ran A Bank And Could Steal With No Chance Of Getting In Trouble Would U

Great site. I've played thousands and thousands of hands. Yes, there are bad beats, but not as often as some people act like(they probably lost all there money and got pissed). Very proffesional look and great interface.

Brian, I love your solution. Clearly well-rounded statistics there -- ten hands is, after all, a VERY BIG sample, and any difference between the ten hands on UB and the ten hands you simulated could never be attributed to chance.

Sometimes i swear UB is rigged, it's unbelievable, they always throw out river cards to some shitty hand, always try to make a low strait on the table, and if you have a high pair, fold, some jackass with 2 pair of 2s and 4s will kick your ass, since UB always throw cards to bullshit hands. On the other hand, if you can figure out there little game, play and bet big on the crappiest hands, I suggest that if you have 2-7os, all in, ur guarrenteed at least 2 pair. Fuck you, UB!

im still laughing my a55 off at these comments by the ppl complaining. By the way, if AA gets cracked then it means you played the hand wrong. AA all in preflop is a mistake cause anything can beat it at any given time. And if you slow play it to the river as if only a pair of aces was the strongest hand in poker than you should keep playing cause ill be at the tables taking your money. No hand is a guaranteed winner. Seems like anytime you complainers dont win a hand its a bad beat. The sooner you realize AA isnt a guaranteed winner and that flushes and straights happen all the time, the sooner youll play right and start winning money. Its not surprise you always lose and claim cheating....

I can honestly say when I lose it 95% on me the other 5% is bad breaks that happen in poker.this site I believe is honest,if you dont think so try party poker them tell me who is not honest

Izzick: Well, I've played thousands of hands on Ub, and thousands of hands face to face with other people. The results have always been the same. I only used 10 hands for the example becuase it had answered my question. I don't care if you think it was a good system or not, it answered the questions I had. I'm not trying to form something solid against UB, becuase frankily I don't care if they cheat. My personal opinion stands, UB gives people cards to make straights and flushes more so then the average hand played. As others do im sure.