thats like i said b4 it would be a great part time thing that is if your good at it of course :cool:

Responding to turning a few bucks into 10s of thousands in months?

Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson turned 1 DOLLAR into 20,000 dollars in 6 months online, to practice...supposedly he never risked more than 10% of his bankroll to do it.

"Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson turned 1 DOLLAR into 20,000 dollars in 6 months online, to practice...supposedly he never risked more than 10% of his bankroll to do it."

where did you read this?

Aces and Kings, by Michael Kaplan and Brad Reagan, page 206.

stay on topic.
 

The question is, can you make your living playing in ONLINE poker, and will you be able to in the future..

People who play correctly but not necessarily amazingly, the booksmart folks, have been making money, sometimes enough to live, in B&M games for a long time, long before the recent "poker craze", so I think its a matter of comparing to this.

Bad differences: If you rely on "reading" people, or selecting your game by the appearance and demeanor of your opponents, you will have a hard time. Some use internet communication to play as a team, comparing hands as such. Discipline is harder when you arent gaining or losing tangible assets.

Good differences: If you're a smart, tight player that makes money slowly but surely, you can increase your per hour winnings by playing multiple tables. People who dont have the confidence to play in B&M games because they suck, may play online, adding to the fish population.

In conclusion: Overall, I think its something to keep our eyes on for the next little while, but not to depend on or convert to, by any means. Its a new way to do an old thing, with some odd twists. Personally, I enjoy playing online but will never play for real money when I'm not in the same room as my direct opponents. As far as things ending when the "poker craze" washes over? Well, it may seperate the medium-good players from the good-good players, but there will always be fish, imho.

RE: Can someone make a long-term career at online poker?
 

Great question sir/madam moderator...

I guess we probably need to define "long-term career". For the sake of argument, I'm going to compare an online poker player to an employee that is in the workforce until retirement (55 years old for now but that age is increasing).

So do I think that someone can make a living playing poker online until retirement if they're in their early 20's now?

Yes I do...if and ONLY if 1 thing continues to happen for the next 30 to 35 years and another thing NEVER happens...for the next 30 to 35 years.

Before I get into these "things", I have to naturally assume that you are a solid, tight, aggressive player. You look for the easy games, you know how to get out of a bad game, you can admit when you're outclassed at the table and adjust your game or leave, you know how to lay it down when you're beat, you play the odds when they're clearly in your favor, you avoid the gray areas, you understand that your poker game extends beyond your current session...it's a life long event, you play within your bankroll, you track your play and are honest with yourself about how much you actually win and loose, you know bad beats will come and when they do you stay even keel and you're an expert at minimizing your loses while maximizing your wins.

That being said, what needs to CONTINUE happening for the next 30 to 35 years? New money and players coming to the game in droves, who think they TOO can make a living playing online poker or can just make some "extra" income. The main thing driving these new players to the game is the constant exposure they're currently seeing in the media and main stream. What are there like 8 or 9 poker events on cable TV every week? And didn't NBC (one of the big 3 networks) have poker along with a Heads-Up tournament? I live in a Texas city with a population of about 120,000 and 2 guys from our city won online events to qualify for the WSOP main event...it was the front page story in the newspaper ONLY because of the place that poker currently holds in the main stream. Both guys finished in the money and it made news on the local television station all because poker is the hot thing right now. I mean come on, I was in the grocery store on Friday and they were selling decent sets of poker chips in the potato chip isle (how's that for cross merchandising)!!! Anyone who's picked up a deck of cards now thinks "why not me?" and it's those people that the dedicated online player will make easy money on. Media and main stream exposure is the flame that lights the fuel (the fuel being the new players and new money). As long as the media and main stream flame stays hot, the online pro will do well. History proves that this won't continue though, especially for the next 30 years. It's like that new song on the radio and video music channels, they all play the hell out of it until people get tired of it, then it's onto the next song. Right now, poker is the new song and it's getting the hell played out of it right now...I don't think it can stand up to this for another 30 years. When it slows down, the media outlets will move onto the next big main stream thing (and there's always a next big thing) When this happens, the sharks will have to feed on each other to survive and even the best sharks will have a tough go at making a living online.

So what can NEVER happen for the next 30 to 35 years? Well everything has a life cycle and poker is at the height of that life cycle right now. This cycle will naturally (and gradually) decline over time but I've got to think that within the next 30 years something will happen to drastically accelerate the downward life cycle. It will probably be a major news outlet that will broadcast an expose that will shed an extremely unfavorable light on the online poker community. Why? Because the television ratings for that expose will be huge considering how popular online poker is right now. The underlying currents constantly talk about how cards are juiced and not as random and you would believe. If some reporter is able to prove this, have some interviews with insiders and so forth, that expose will signal the beginning of the end to online poker's life cycle. It doesn't matter that of the hundreds of online poker sites, the majority are square...if the media finds just one...the entire online poker community will be painted with the same negative brush. How quickly it spirals downward depends on how much the poker sites, in general, can withstand 20%-40% (or more) of it's players cashing out their accounts...I would bet most couldn't withstand that type of mass exodus. If this happens, sites will crash and burn left and right, leaving only the strongest sites to survive. But of course, as these sites crash and burn, they will create more stories of people who lost money because the site went dark...accelerating the downward cycle even faster.

So to sum it up...yes, I think a good player can make a long term career out of playing poker online provided there is new money and players constantly entering the game and as long as the whole house doesn't come crashing down because of a 60 Minutes expose on the "Fraud that is internet poker."...and this online poker utopia remains undisturbed for the next 30 to 35 years...but do you think that will really happen?

Again, great question sir/madam moderator...

Nate
"There's right, there's wrong and there's reality."

Well Said!
 

Well said, and very true. I think people put WAY too much stock in getting reads online. B&M Poker and Online Poker are two different animals. It's obvious that live games require more attention where online you can play 4-5 games at a clip and just play your best cards.

1. Play tight, always. Don't try and get cute.
2. Poker is cyclical. If you aren't prepared to lose as much as you win or have won, get out of the way. Go play checkers.

Not sure where your from but 7G's in 5 months is well over the norm full a full time job Guess all depends on where you live

I've been playing for years. I've read all the books, posted to 2+2 and the rest. I can say with humility that I am in the top 5% of low limit players online. Specifically, my pokertracker results prove this. If you are going to make claims like you can live off poker, you need to have this software.

To answer the question specifically I've played over 74,000 hands this year. I can average 1.75 big bets per 100 hands. I play mostly 5c/$1.00, but occasionally $1/$2. I play the most profitable games based on multiple criteria I won't divulge. This means I might be at 2 omaha high tables, one PL 08, and maybe a holdem that I'm on 'autopilot' on. When you add it up, I can make $7.00 an hour, hosestly. That's it. Month in, month out.

Most people at my level move up in limits, and maybe I'm a pussy. Maybe that is where the money is, but I doubt it. More raising preflop, less brutal mistakes by opponents. Clear value raises become marginal value raises. Pots move from 9-12 big bets to 6-8 consistantly. Anyone who thinks they can make 2bb/100 at one level, and 1.5 at the next highest level is lying to themselves and doesn't have pokertracker or anther means to keep honest track of thier results.

Books, TV, WSOP, and internet sites like this one exist because of the theme that you can make a living off of poker. "Think about that. Just study a little bit, play with patence, and you too can make a killing" Its just not the case.

Just an edit, that was supposed to be 47,000 hands

Iceman hit the nail on the head.
Is it possible for a person to make a living at it?
Yes.
Is it possible for 'you' to do it?
That's something only you can answer.

Regarding 'a living', i'll tell ya what poker has done for me.
It gave me the downpayment to buy a great house on 30 acres in Northern Vermont in a town so picturesque that it looks like it's straight out of a Currier and Ives painting.
It allows me to go to this amazing place during the summer (where there is essentially no 'work' to speak of) and still keep myself fed, clothed, all the bills paid, the car gassed and have enough money to eat out at the local eatery a few nights a week.
It also pays my mortgage and my insurance, and I still have enough money to do a little antiquing on the side.

Am I making sick Brain Surgeon money doing it?
No.
Does poker afford me the lifestyle i've always wanted?
Hell yes, for damn sure, it does.
While it isn't my primary profession, online poker gives me three months 'vacation' every year and pays for every bit of it.
And instead of my winnings going towards nonsense or to pay to move up levels until it's all gone, it goes straight into a mortgage that is my retirement home.

Some of the replies in this post and many of the those in other posts show why online poker is profitable.

You don't have to be great, or even a particularly good player to make money (just better than enough of those players who know obsolutley nothing, to out-perform the rake). I started 3 months ago, keep records and don't play full-time. I have put zero cents (zilch, nothing) into poker accounts; started out from free-rolls and no-deposit cash bonuses. I have taken out over $300 (not a fortune, but from 0.5 / 1 no-limit games it's not a lucky streak either).

Did i say $0.5 / $1. Whoa! That's way out of my league. I meant $0.05 / $0.10. Stay patient win some lose some. Eventually a maniac turns up to pay me and I make a tidy and consitent profit.

Umm, I smell fish. If it was 75% luck then the top 20 have all of it!

What a dump answer.

Yes you can make a living on-line. Just get ten of your friends to join and you can tell each other what you have, Or could dump your chips to your buddy and split the winnings! Happens all day long and hard to find them!

Here is your answer. Yes, someone can make a living at online poker, because I have been doing it for a year now. As far as a long term living, only time will tell, but so far so good.

I would also like to say that it wasn't always fun and games. The first year I played poker online I lost and LOST BIG! I was losing around 600/mo trying different ways to play, different sites, different limits, anything I could think of to try and find my niche in the world of online poker. I don't know if these people who are saying they are making this amount and that amount are telling the truth and I don't care. My first year playing online I lost over 7k and the beginning of this year I lost another 2k before I finally figured out what really worked. I have now profited 72k. 79k minus my 9k in previous losses. So yes it can be done, but it isn't all fun and games, it has to be treated as a job and time, effort, and WORK has to be put into it.

I hope this helps answer your question. If you want to do it for a living, be prepared to LOSE money until you figure out the ideal place, limits, and games are best suited for you.

Make $$ online
 

Yes yes they can and do make money online. Will games "dry up" in the next 5 years? That has always been a fear of players since I've known the game. It only gets better and better over time. Even if it did slow down in the next 5 years I doubt it will be as "slow" as it was 5 years ago before the internet WSOP, WPT donkeymaker boom.
Can people make a living online, yes. I know many players that have and do earn a nice living playing online. Most of their rakeback is more than the 4 tables of 2-4 hourly rate. They break even and make 2K+ from bonus and rake back incentive. They are the lucky ones with big bank rolls though. I do know many low rollers who grind out low limit games about 3-5 hours a day and bonus whore around sites. They love to play poker part-time, pick up some extra money and with the rest of their day persue other hobbies. The true grind is clocking in to a job M-F at 8:00am and having to listen to some dickhead boss tell you what and how to do things. Unless you are the boss :) .
I think most of the viewers here do not understand this concept as I assume most are all home game players. You are all right though that 85% players are loosers but love the game but remember... most people play for fun or the company of others and just a few purely for the money. As long as this stays true the games will ALWAYS be good. It is the very fortunate ones, and extremely rare, who play for fun, enjoy others company AND earn a profit who have it good. Those players who play purely for a profit end up being miserable grinders that you, like myself, despise.
Have a nice day.
DeiYuo

freeroll into making money
 

hey can someone tell me how i can earn bonus cash from playing freeroll games...and what sites i can goto, instead of having to deposit money...cheers

I certainly hope so!
 

Hello!

In response to the question "Can one make a living playing online poker?" -- I reluctantly have to admit that yes they can.

My boyfriend graduated with a Commerce degree concentrating in finance in April, and started playing online no limit texas hold em sit and go's as his career of choice. I was EXTREMELY skeptical at first....and for a long time, but now that it is almost a year, I can see that the skill to luck ratio is weighted heavily on skill; kinda like the song "..ya gotta know when to fold'em...". There are a lot of academic displines at play here; statistics, economics, finance, psychology, education, marketing, etc. that are only truly understood by the most educated and advanced players. And I feel that yes; one can make a living playing online poker.

BUT, I DO QUESTION THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE. I am a very understanding girlfriend, and I wonder if those people are able to "live" i.e. have girlfriends, wives, boyfriends, husbands, children, etc.....what about job security??? Applying for loans or mortgages??? Has anybody put any thought into this???????

Any response would be greatly appreciated.

I think most professionls who are playing full time making 30k, 60k, or whatever will get sick of it after 2-3 years. I don't think a girlfriend has to worry.

As far as job security goes, I think it has a lot to do with whatever their personal risk tolerance is.

LOL, please guys, get a real job
 

I really feel sorry for some of you guys. You claim to make money at this and brag a lot about it. Ever consider there are people out there who do this for fun, make money, and are also accomplished in life? Why would you waste away in some casino when you could probably make more if you dedicated yourself to a REAL JOB?

I take pride in knowing I have the best education at the table, have a real job, and respected. I personally think some people in casinos are dirt bags, especially the pros that sit there and make less than me.

I tried poker in all forms. To me, only some tourneys are fun (most of them actually), but cash games are crap if you're around the wrong people (like a weekday afternoon, losers for the most part). I ruined some pro the other day like you wouldn't believe and then left. It was funny, actually. He does this for a living and I ruined him that day, not the first time either.

My advice: get an education, get a real job, and then play poker. It’s a great story for some college dropout to win a major poker tournament, but there were 100 suckers before him who didn't get as lucky. I heard Eli Elezra say the same thing the other day and I was proud of him for saying it. Look at him, a very successful businessman. He is far more accomplished that just about any pro in life. That is what you should aspire to be, not some idiot who dropped out of college and brags about it. THEY ALL REGRET IT, BELIEVE ME. They wish they had the education, but they don’t. Everyone wishes they had one, but FEW WORK FOR IT.

Also keep in mind a lot of this is luck. Long-term, not really, I can attest to that, as I don't lose often. My point is the following. Do something where you can outwork real, honest, hard working people. Do poker on the side. If you get lucky or are simply super talented, then try to make a living. I think most poker pros think their life is crap. Don't let 20 name pros fool you. I think the vast majority of them have a garbage life. I wouldn't want it I know that. Just look at their ring finger, hardly anyone is married. Sounds like a crappy life to me.

Go get an education and then play poker. That is for all the 16-20 year olds. I guarantee you it feels 100 times better kicking ass in academics (you prove your talent and ability that way, zero luck) and business. Then, go play a poker games a ruin some pros. That is what I do!

I want to play WPT and WSOP and will in a couple years (after grad school), but I promise you I will probably be the most accomplished person at the table outside of poker, or close to it. That is when life gets fun, beating people up in various arenas (academics, sports, poker, whatever).

Also, no one cares about your stupid home games or online stuff. Go beat pros in a casino or zip it. I already got my win at the Bicycle Casino and more will come. But keep in mind, that means zero. Kicking ass in life is what counts.

Go get an education youngins or you will amount to nothing. Mark my words.

I agree with a lot of what this guy is saying - but doesn't he sound like a complete douche?

No, I think it's nice to have someone tell it like it is. The losers always complain and find scapegoats because the losers don't realize they are losers.

No Way
 

Lot of bull going around.............

With all the young kids playing with mom and dad's money at best you will survive to a 60/40 bet a lot of times. And that assumes you are always ahead.

Then wipe out the 10-12% rake. Another few percent for the cost of money on your credit card. Or deposit fee from your bank. Of value of money if you had invested it in Apple stock instead?

Take out another small percentage for the power failure, internet problems, computer problems, etc.

There is a lot of math to really be considered, and if you take the time you will eventually come to the conclusion that you have win closer to 85% of the time vrs 51% to come out ahead. That's very tough to do.

All before you consider luck, cost of bad streaks, etc.

Play for fun, the experience, but when your buddy or anybody here tells you he's winning on a consistent basis, you know the real truth.

It's basically very cheap entertainment, about it.

What you're saying borborabob is a great rule of thumb for the masses, because poker is designed for the masses to lose, so assuming the game is impossible to grind a career from would save alot of people money and time, and appreciating the game as just entertainment is what I hope the majority of poker players do. I recommend this view to anyone, however, I'd recommend the bible to people wanting to improve their life, doesn't mean I believe in God.

It IS possible to grind a career but it rely's on many factors, which makes it extremely unlikely a player will succeed:
1.Bankroll management
2.Never tilting
3.Putting enough time and thought in that you dominate the stakes you play.
4.You can find the right games to play in.
5.You always have 6 months bills worth of money saved.
6.A personality that has courage, self-control, intelligence, and patience.
7.All the things ive forgotten and missed out.

To say the game is unbeatable for the reasons you've stated is ignorant and wrong, and is proved wrong by the deserving few who do very well in the game.

I will use my game as an example and put it through your list of bullsh**:

(all my winnings)-(losing hands)-(bad beats)-(rake)-(disconnection)=

8.2 BB/100
27.5% ROI

Over 100,000 hands luck and bad beats don't even come into it, again this ignorance of how the game works leads me to believe that you bought a few poker books and played for a year thinking you would one day be a big winner, it came crashing down, YOU spent you mum n dads money, and you want every one to agree that it's the games fault you lost, an that nothing you could do would change that....WRONG!

There is so much self-invloved, ignorant views from people who have been succesful in their careers putting pro poker players down, and they don't even realise they are playing the same game and just got lucky in their lives, business and careers. You are quick to point out that a handful of poker players have great success whilst the majority of players are miserable with what they do, sounds an awful lot like peoples working life though doesn't it. I can easily say 'don't be fooled by the Sir Alan Sugars the average wage is $33,000 and your income and life is probably gonna suck' but that would be ignoring the fact that the successful businessmen that have it good had the intelligence, education, self-motivation and business sense to succeed, same as poker pro's.

It's the same game, different location. People who are smart and work hard at their careers or poker games become very successful.

Your post contains so many holes I dont know where to start, and am 100% that you work hard, get paid well, then donk it off to poker players in the casinos, so sure i'll take u up on a game online any time u like. Now, to where to start......

Zero luck in business? LOL!! There is luck in business but making the right decisions eradicates this, SAME AS POKER!

Eli Elezra made money in business, but if you think he's a good example of a winning player you're very wrong. I'd be very surprised if he's up in poker.

Whilst you're sitting at the table taking pride that you worked hard, and are more succeful than the bums at the poker table, they are sitting there thanking god that hard working fools like you give their money away whilst they play a game they enjoy, yes, they are judging you too!

Don't get me wrong, i have great respect for people that have careers they like and get paid well for it, but I also respect the poker players who play a game they love that they worked hard at, and get paid handsomel for it. Hope you can pull your head out your ar** one day and see that alot of people just arent gonna be successful whatever they do, and that theres happy, miserable, poor, rich, successful, failures in all careers, including the poker pro.